Comments on Martial Views: Boxers Who Could've Been Martial Artists

Thanks Bob. A couple of different perspectives to...

2011-01-02T20:30:36.352-05:00

Thanks Bob.

A couple of different perspectives to add to yours about the psyche of certain boxers:

Heavyweight champ Joe Frazier used to say, "It's just a job."

Marvelous Marvin Hagler (yes, he actually had his name legally changed to that) would describe himself as a "monster" going into a bout.

But it was legendary boxing coach Ray Arcel who summed it up by saying that no matter how confident a fighter looks before a match there is still a remnant of fear.

So a little fear, a healthy dose of respect and lots of innate ability go a long way for boxers.

(Female boxing has really come a long way. A few years back there was a great flick about a female fighter, Million Dollar Baby, with Clint Eastwood as the trainer and Hillary Swank playing the lead. Really sad ending though, I wish they had done it differently.)

John, interesting post, sorry to be weighing in so...

2011-01-02T19:19:07.456-05:00

John, interesting post, sorry to be weighing in so late. To provide one more perspective re "fighting:"
there's a female boxing coach, Christy Halbert, who argues that boxing isn't fighting; in a fight, you're generally angry with the other person. Speaking from her perspective as an amateur boxing coach, she argues that boxers aren't angry at each other in the ring, and in fact have great respect for each other, which to her mind differentiates it from "fighting."

KF: ...there are massive differences between t...

2010-12-01T01:40:34.567-05:00
KF:

...there are massive differences between the two approaches [boxing and karate] to fighting.

That's an understatement. First, let's examine this concept of "fight." It shouldn't be trivialized or taken for granted.

Fighters engage in a contest (not necessarily sport, e.g., a streetfight). It's more or less mutually agreed there will be an exchange of blows. The premise behind almost all traditional martial arts is to utilize self defense against an assailant who (very likely) hasn't a real clue how to attack, defend, etc.. Two very different scenarios.

Now here's how I see it: Most traditional martial artists can't really fight. It's not because the techniques or the curriculum being taught are necessarily ineffective, but rather in the training methods. Traditional martial artists simply aren't conditioned or trained to cope with the psychological shock and trauma of a real fight. Certainly not the way boxers are. As in everything though, there are exceptions.

Karate_Fighter ("KF") on "Boxer as ...

2010-11-30T18:23:01.292-05:00
Karate_Fighter ("KF") on "Boxer as Martial Artist."

KF sides with DR on boxing, per se, is not a martial art. The flip-side, boxing can certainly be used like a martial art.

Boxing is a 'sport;' karate is a 'martial art.' The reason for the dichotomy between the two is that a sport is a physical activity; a martial art (here karate) is a discipline. Begs the question, KF admits.

Still, there are massive difference between the two approaches to fighting.

Karate_Fighter

Mat: Nor are the MMA competitors. You'd think...

2010-11-11T12:24:44.207-05:00
Mat:

Nor are the MMA competitors. You'd think for all the pounding and blood loss those guys incur they would be better compensated.

Now if they made some movies maybe that would change.

Martial artists are not paid as much either!

2010-11-11T11:19:11.455-05:00
Martial artists are not paid as much either!

Charles: There's a lot of the "martial&q...

2010-11-10T02:07:35.151-05:00
Charles:

There's a lot of the "martial" missing in the martial arts today. Teaching young children, sport, and some of the quasi-performance theatrics are not the stuff of authentic martial arts.

Granted, much of the original content of bujutsu was deliberately diluted to make them 'civil.'

Regarding this list of "What makes a Martial Art" -- where did you get this from? I think you included "NOT" when you shouldn't have. Take a look at it again, please.

I recently wrote about the not-so-subtle differences between budo and bujutsu, but both terms roughly translate as "martial arts." Karate is considered a budo form, so karate is a martial art.

The progenitors of modern martial arts had no problem with this term and it has earned such a spot in our culture that defining them as something else at this point would be an exercise in semantics. For example, I could say boxing isn't really a sport because both players are trying to knock each other out - this is not "sportive" by any definition. So then I could re-classify boxing as something less euphemistic like "contested mayhem." Would anybody really care or pay any attention to this? Probably not, but it might get some laughs.

Just as a snippet of technicality but karate is NO...

2010-11-09T11:26:57.210-05:00
Just as a snippet of technicality but karate is NOT a martial art. Isshinryu is NOT a martial art.

What makes a Martial Art is:

1. It was NOT created or practiced by professional warriors.

2. It was NOT a creation of a martial group.

3. It is not meant for direct application on a battlefield.

It can be thought of as either a "civil art" or "combative art." It can be for self defense, etc.

BUT, it ain't a "Martial Art!"

Just had to get that in there, hehehe

great post. I usually lump boxing into martial ar...

2010-11-09T11:00:58.283-05:00
great post. I usually lump boxing into martial arts as the fighting is an artform of itself. I consider Archery and shooting martial arts as well.